@ FuyuMaiden: Well, in our (or my) defense, the concept of moe is pure escapism and most of us treat is as “comfort food” rather than a real desire for reality. I’d hate to think that girls expect guys to be cool and angsty and to never express their feelings (although that may be true, I wouldn’t know), so I definitely see where you’re coming from.

And you’re right, of course, acting like a harem lead IRL wouldn’t do a thing. I was referring to the harem lead’s “ability” to earn the affection of the girl of his choice without really doing anything. The fact that harem leads are ordinary is also part of the escapism, leading to the delusion that doing nothing can result in a positive conclusion – it would be hard for an otaku to play a VN where the protagonist is actually cool, smart, clever, etc. I guess it comes down to the fact that we all want the easy way out, and some forms of anime choose to capitalize on that wish and provide easier forms of success (within the confines of your TV/monitor).

@ animekritik: That’s a good way of summarizing it. And, assuming that you meant that figuratively rather than literally, sadness in fiction can be good, but (arguably) sadness IRL isn’t something that anyone wants to experience. Of course, that can spawn a whole slew of philosophical debate which would fly over my head, but I think we can all agree that we wouldn’t want to be in Mayama’s or Rika’s position in real.

@ TheBigN: Yep, that leads into my last point as well. A scenario might seem perfect in your eyes, but just because you meet a quiet bare-footed girl sleeping in the library with a book in her lap doesn’t mean that she wants you to wake her up and talk to her (and, unlike in anime, she might not even be single!)

@ M12: Funny you should mention “annoying”, because that’s exactly what Ayu Tsukimiya would be like IRL :P

@ tai: In one sense of the word, it’s subjective as certain types of moe appeal to you and others don’t, but for the purpose of posts like this, I’m treating it as something objective. Basically, the elements of escapism and unrealistic appeal that draw the viewer to a specific character, whomever the character may be.

And yes, many moe types take personality traits in real, such as short tempers and awkwardness with romance, and compress them into something that works, such as tsundere. I’d also like to add that the negatives are usually removed during this process – note that the harem leads never get bored/run out of things to say while talking to the silent girls, and the silent girls never really get annoyed by the conversation. The traits don’t come out of nowhere, but rather, are an exaggerated/romanticized version of the more subtle traits that might be considered attractive IRL.

Are you saying moé is subjective or objective? I’ve always recognized (certain) characters as moé even if I don’t find the appeal in them – I thought moé was just a concept to describe characters with unrealistic yet appealing traits certain people (but not necessarily oneself) would like.

If you’re talking about why moé characters are so appealing, (I can’t pinpoint exactly what about moé you’re talking about, so I’ll just rant…) I think it’s because of compression—they take realistic traits and amplify them so we get the same amount of appeal in a 20-minute episode (or VN or movie or whatnot) as we do in a longer span like we would with our (boy/girl)friends. This amplification is what makes them unrealistic but believable (does that make sense…?)
I would imagine a moé character brought to real life would be irrefutably irritating, of course with the exception to the quiet types, since, well, they won’t bother you if you don’t bother them.

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I’d sorta agree with that and continue in that vein, where when the viewer feels that a character is “moe”, we never really get an idea of whether the said character agree with this designation or not. She (or he) just is in the eyes of the viewer, and there’s no-one to really question that. Reality kills that as it would be abnormal for things to be so one-sided in that direction, without the person who’s considered “moe” to question how we see them, and why we feel that way. And more importantly, it would be abnormal if the person didn’t have their own ideas on what the term means to them, and if they want things go that way (if they want our pity/protective impulses/fawning feelings/lustful desires/etc.)in the first place. Life’s not that easy. :P

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A character needn’t have “depth” either–to use Kanon, the characters are archetypes, existing less as “real people” so much as a platform from which to involve the reader/viewer in the emotional experience. It’s strikingly similar to the structure of Socrates in Love–which was published around the time that the Kanon visual novel was released–where the characters’ relative realism doesn’t seem to matter as it simply becomes a vehicle for carrying emotion to the reader.

Using the Honey & Clover analogy here (which I myself am about ready to rewatch), I would say that Ayumi Yamada was “moe” for me–my memory’s hazy and I don’t know if I’d say this now, but I do remember identifying/sympathizing/empathizing with her particular situation to a greater degree than the other characters. It’s usually characters with whom I have significantly high sympathy/empathy with that I tend to call “moe”; whether it’s right or wrong I’ve no idea.

And, honestly, most of the characters, especially the ones I really, really like, in all fiction, I’d never spend time around them were they real. That’s perhaps part of the appeal of fiction: reading fiction should provide a glimpse into the mind of another, either the author’s, the characters’, or, most frequently, both.

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You wrote “sadness is only beautiful when there’s a solution”. If there isn’t a solution, is sadness ugly??

Interesting that you mention H+C, as I recently commented on anime|otaku that it’s a series that translates rather well to reality (not a far-fetched escapism). So I’m assuming this comes down to moe’, if situationally existing in reality, would be hard to call moe? Though, not impossible.

Off the top of my head, a totally realistic moe might be like Shizu’s attempted room exit in Maria+Holic, episode 06, where she was upset, trying to open the door, but it was still locked D: … MOE!

If moe was more accessible in reality, it may be troublesome since the viewer often forms some kind of attachment to the moe character (expect for Impz vs bakamoe of course), and in reality this would be rather awkward, unmanageable, and ultimately would someone be able to manifest something from it (ie relationship)? If not, then seemingly a bit more escapism might be needed lol. Perhaps its better if we leave it in fantasies, and use sparingly in reality… dunno.

MOE!

But you got it exactly right I think. Except I’d add that any guys who wants harem lead power can have it, it’s just not going to work on real girls. They’ll almost never like a guy who’s just nice, at least not at teenage, moe ages. That’s the biggest difference between reality and fiction I’d say. Then again, it’s not like guys do the small things harem leads do either (like helping a girl with her books), but I still stand by my point. The moe-est thing about fictional girls is that they’re nicer than they are in real life.

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